Songs and poems

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Postby dragon girl » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:29 pm

Garbo wrote:Okay, as anyone can tell you if you've read my stuff I write some off the wall things.

If you can get all of the literary references, the metre, and the poetic form I mess with in this one... I'll give you a cookie cake. ;)

Parchéd Willow the singer sings
Come home come home to many things
Sing of the many wondrous things
That came to us on Ballad’s dreams

Sing of adventures many new
Of Tristan and his Lady fair
Sing of the wit of Dor’thea
Sing of Aeneas and his crew

Sing Willow sing, sing Willow sing
Let not your mem’ries fade so fast
Let not the dew of glories past
So fast melt not from treetop limbs
But scatters slowly from the bough
And fall upon the list’ner’s brow
:D :wink: Okay... Tristan and Isolde *spelling?*, Wizzard of Oz?, The Aenead. Not sure of the meter, so I guess I miss out on the cookie cake, but I think I should get a slice. I Love cookie cake. Chocolate chip!
Hugs!
Chrissy and Lizzie
Geigh sinn ar n-aite 'san t-shaoghal
We will find our place in the world
'S an ginealach ur
In a new generation
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Postby Garbo » Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:07 pm

Yes, you got two references. :D You get two slices for that. And Isolde's name can be spelled that way or Iseult so you're correct in the spelling.

I'll give a clue about the other name: it's Dorothea. And as far as the type, it's a messed up sonnet of one of the two forms.

Aside from Dorothea, there are two other literary references that span over four hundred centuries.
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Postby A_S » Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:35 am

Have you got some Othello in with the "sing willow" part, which Desdemona sings right at the end?
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Postby Garbo » Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:08 pm

A_S wrote:Have you got some Othello in with the "sing willow" part, which Desdemona sings right at the end?


YES! :mrgreen: I'm so excited you picked up on that. *hands out cookie cake*
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Postby dragon girl » Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:09 pm

Garbo wrote:YES! :mrgreen: I'm so excited you picked up on that. *hands out cookie cake*

:x No wonder I didn't get it! I'm a scifi geek not a Shakespearian. My focus is creative writing, although I'll be the first to say that Shakespeare was Way more of a genius than I'll ever be. Anne McCaffrey anyone?
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Chrissy and Lizzie
Geigh sinn ar n-aite 'san t-shaoghal
We will find our place in the world
'S an ginealach ur
In a new generation
Runrig: Ard.
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Postby Garbo » Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:04 pm

dragon girl wrote:
Garbo wrote:YES! :mrgreen: I'm so excited you picked up on that. *hands out cookie cake*

:x No wonder I didn't get it! I'm a scifi geek not a Shakespearian. My focus is creative writing, although I'll be the first to say that Shakespeare was Way more of a genius than I'll ever be. Anne McCaffrey anyone?
Hugs!
Chrissy and Lizzie


Wait, what? You did get it. I was alluding to the Willow song.

I'm more a Milton girl, but I do like Shakespeare. I'm taking a course on Verdi's adaption of the plays; a very fun class. :)

There are a few more things in it, but if you want I can just tell you guys what they are and then post pictures of cookie cakes. :mrgreen:
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Postby Luned » Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:58 pm

and Dorothea? *grasps "The Dictionary of Phrase and Fable" :mrgreen: * Is it her that you meant?

Dorothea (St.),

represented with a rose-branch in her hand, a wreath of roses on her head, and roses with fruit by her side; sometimes with an angel carrying a basket with three apples and three roses. The legend is that Theophilus, the judge’s secretary, scoffingly said to her, as she was going to execution, “Send me some fruit and roses, Dorothea, when you get to Paradise.” Immediately after her execution, while Theophilus was at dinner with a party of companions, a young angel brought to him a basket of apples and roses, saying, “From Dorothea, in Paradise,” and vanished. Theophilus, of course, was a convert from that moment.

http://www.bartleby.com/81/5250.html

???
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Postby Garbo » Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:48 pm

I was going for Dorothea from Middlemarch by George Eliot but that works too!! :D Wouldn't be totally fun to sit in a class and listen to people analyze something you wrote?
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Postby Luned » Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:10 pm

:lol: from a slightly different angle: could you imagine Milton or Donne or some other famous poet listening to the discussions of their work in classes on poetry nowadays? ;)
Last edited by Luned on Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Garbo » Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:12 pm

Luned wrote::lol: from a slightly different angle: can you imagine Milton or Donne or some other famous poet listening to the discussions of their work in classes on poetry nowadays? ;)


We talked about that in my Milton seminar especially: what would Milton think of all of the pro-Satan (hahahah Satanists) scholars there are today?

That's such a cool thought.
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Postby Luned » Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:26 pm

Ah, right, the question about who is the real hero in PL? :) But I think that the beauty of poetry lies exactly in the fact that we can interpret it in our own personal ways, and I believe we are entitled to that... well, of course, I have come across some interpretations in which their authors clearly read a bit too much in a poem in question (at least, that was my impression). But still, sometimes poetry written in the past may take on a completely different meaning to us living in a different reality than that of the poet's... OK, sorry for my rambling :)
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Postby Garbo » Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:31 pm

That is very true and I think that's why there is the argument of who is the hero in PL (Adam? Satan? The Son? Eve?). From what I know of the Milton Society though, it's the Son and Milton intended it that way. However, that does not mean we can't write fun thesis papers on it. ;) I wrote my conference paper on PR though although I probably won't present at a conference. I have no idea which one to present it at.

I think Donne would be easier going than Milton though. "What, you didn't get that theological reference? Blast you you ignorant fool!" ;) And then Donne would say, "JM, cool down man, cool down, you need to release that inner tension. Think about God and think about sex and put them together. Fine combination eh?" Then Donne would nudge Milton in the ribs and Milton would start coughing and tell him to shush his mouth about the Almighty. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Nah, Milton had a great sense of humour. Satan is one of the funniest characters in English lit history.
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Postby A_S » Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:54 pm

So, Garbo, I really like how you worked in those literary and mythological references. In your poem, their mere mention evokes the spirit of the great tales, which is really needed in a poem like that which seems to be about savoring the beauty of those stories. I'm trying to get better at working in literary references myself. How do you pick which ones to include?

Actually, I myself was working on a poem idea that used the willow song from Othello the night before I read yours. Quite a coincidence. That same poem involved Daphne too. It isn't even really in draft form yet, but it deals with environmental issues/global warming and uses Daphne as a tree (which she is, so that one's not that original) and Desdemona's song as a lament about her and how after all this time Apollo is still winning what with global warming, etc. I think that it might be a bit ambitious for me, but it could be kind of cool if I can pull it off. 8)
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Postby Garbo » Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:07 pm

I think you should go with it! Don't hesitate to try something big and honestly, you'll know if it's not the right time to try it (I know I'm not ready to start working on my big novel or rather I'm not ready to finish it). But I really like your idea.

I guess I can tell you how I came up with the Willow poem. First off, I'm a 17th century poetry/literature scholar and all of the poets wrote stuff like that. They had to merely mention a name and immediately a whole flood of thoughts and ideas came to the reader's head (of course the readers of the 17th century readers were extremely educated). SoI started with that notion. I just formulated in my head what literary references I wanted to make based off of the first line. I thought of the Willow song and from there thought of what songs meant in an epic sense (I even personified Ballad) and came up with some epic references that spanned hundreds of years of literary history.

I decided to write it in a metre that is not associated with the sonnet (Iambic tetrameter) and the rhyme is not typical sonnet form (because I'm butchering the Italian sonnet). It has the typical 8/6 pattern, but it's not entirely true to the Italian form (I'm making a reference to the Romantics here). The 8 is referring to the epic and also enticing the reader to figure out what is being mentioned and the last 6 is really me trying poetic form (and trying to be vivid in detail- I really wanted to create a picture). The image is inspiration (that's what the Willow brings- also the Willow can be seen as just a tree like an Ent, which are story tellers and considered to be very old and wise). I tried to fit a whole lot into a tiny amount of space.

So yeah, those were my intentions. I don't know if I succeeded. I wrote another poem in metre, an Unholy Sonnet in reference to John Donne, which I mention a lot of his Holy Sonnets in it. I also messed with the poetic form to make a point that it is "unholy". ;)

Again, these may be my intentions, but I am not sure if I have succeeded. :)
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Postby Luned » Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:57 pm

Garbo wrote:Nah, Milton had a great sense of humour. Satan is one of the funniest characters in English lit history.

It just came to my mind what William Blake said in his Marriage of H & H: "The reason Milton wrote in fetters when he wrote of Angels and God, and at liberty when of Devils and Hell, is because he was a true Poet, and of the Devil's party without knowing it." :P :lol:

and I really like the way you introduced all those literary allusions in your poem, Garbo :)
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