Do you object.....

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Would you object to the Mods editing post that contains the Lord's name taken in vain?

Poll ended at Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:02 pm

Yes
8
25%
No
16
50%
Don't care either way
8
25%
 
Total votes : 32

Do you object.....

Postby Beth » Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:02 pm

Hi alls,
The Mods staff just wanted to bounce this idea off of all of you and see what you think.

Strictly, the Moya forum is not a Christain forum though a number of us are indeed Christain. It has come to light though that some do use words like 'God' and 'Jesus Christ' even though they are not asking 'Do you believe in God?'

The question that us Mods would like to know from you though is would you object to the moderators going into a post that contains words like those and editing them to something along the lines of 'Oh my goodness/gosh!' rather than 'Oh my God!'?

This poll will run for 10 days as of 18-April 2006. It will end 28-April 2006.

BTW, please feel free to post your comments on this also.
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Postby Littlefoot Took » Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:11 am

I want the mods to know that I think it very cool that you are aware of this, and are eager to take care with the Lords name...

good job!
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Postby jpanarese » Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:49 am

I don't have any problem with the mods editting posts if they are deamed "offensive" in anyway and the majority of members are on the same proverbial page about the issue. I would guess that you are going to get the "this is a public forum" and, "what happened to freedom of speech", types of responses. In my very humble and insignificant opinion, this might not be a "Christian" forum, but the person to which it is dedicated does openly talk about her faith and spirituality. If anything, perhaps it might be "right" to find out Moya's take on the subject.

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Postby Phantas » Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:42 am

Personally, "NO" I would not want this to happen. It sound very discriminating to those ppl who are NOT of this faith.
I can see the point, I'm all for taking things in consideration, but I mean, some of us only use it as an expression! I'm certain that the majority of members here isn't that close-minded to mind...I would find it strange if it was. I cannot see Moya object to such a thing personally :|

I really understand the point you are trying to make but I do not see it is fair.

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Postby Angoid » Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:03 am

I have no objections to such expressions being moderated, and I'm speaking here as me as a person!

Yes, it's because I am a Christian too and hate to see the Lord's name take in vain and although this is not specifically a Christian forum, we do have a lot of Christians on here so I feel it's right to uphold Christian values as much as Moya herself would like to see them upheld.

Even so, I'm on other non-Christian forums where such language is frowned upon, and would be moderated out by the non-Christian mods there.
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Postby Hester » Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:10 am

Hmmm...I had an interesting conversation about the use of swearwords and the use of God's name in vain with my sister in law this weekend....she is working at an office and her collegues were making fun of Easter and of Jesus being on the Cross etc. She really felt hurt when they did that...She said "I am not someone you can't joke with...even about religion you can joke sometimes, but the fact that Jesus died on the Cross for us, gave His live for us that is the most important thing within the Christian faith...that is sooo personal and means so much to me that it hurts me deep deep down inside if people make jokes about that"
Her collegues understood that and they said something along the lines of "Yeah, but we don't mean it like that it is just an expression when we say Jesus Christ!! God D**ned, a**e, C*nt Pr*k" and all sorts of dutch words for genitals that people here use as swear words..So my sister in law replied "Now do you realize what it is you're actually saying...You use the name of Someone that means so much to me in the same meaning as you use all these horrible low swear words...Can you understand that this really hurts me"?
I can understand that it might be hard to understand this if you're not a Christian but maybe it helps if you try to imagine someone using these horrible swear and genital words and every now and again he or she would use the name of someone you really love like the name of your husband...mother...child in there...and you know he is not using it because he likes your husband/mother/child but he is using it as just another swearword...that surely feels horrible and degenerates the name of your loved one doesn't it?
It personally hurts me to notice that when it comes to the Christian faith all of a sudden everybody is allowed to say what he or she likes while, when it comes to another religion like Budhism or Hindoeism that is respected...You rarely hear people use the name of Budha or Mohammed used in vain cause people seem to realize you respect that...I wish this could be the same with the Christian faith...Yeah, I know freedom is speech is neccesary but there is always the aspect of using freedom in speech within the borders of genuine respect for other people's feelings...

Allright, quite a heated post from my side this time...Just let me emphasize again that I respect people's opinion on this and I do hope you'll respect mine..

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Postby Angoid » Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:25 am

I respect that 100% Hester. In fact (and I may have posted this elsewhere) I tried an experiment at my last place of work. I had a colleague whom I shall call John (not his real name) and he used to say, "Oh G-d!" all the while.

If something went wrong with something I was working on, I'd say, "oh JOHN!!!!!"

Needless to say, it hacked him off and I explained that this is what it's like when he referenced God or Jesus in the same way.

This is not a case of restricting anyone's freedom of speech: it's a respect issue. As you rightly point out Hester, we don't go round taking the names of the gods of other religions in vain or insulting the founders of other faiths in vain, so why should Christianity be the one and only exception?
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Postby Grania » Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:16 pm

Phantas wrote:Personally, "NO" I would not want this to happen. It sound very discriminating to those ppl who are NOT of this faith.
I can see the point, I'm all for taking things in consideration, but I mean, some of us only use it as an expression! I'm certain that the majority of members here isn't that close-minded to mind...I would find it strange if it was. I cannot see Moya object to such a thing personally :|

I really understand the point you are trying to make but I do not see it is fair.

Love,
Phantas


I'm a little concerned you can see this as discrimination Phantas.

I'll be honest with you, in my speach I sometimes do say the sorts of things were are addressing here, it's something I've picked up from the many people around me that do; I do try not to for my own reasons, and Faith, but sometimes I still fail.
However, when I am around people I know this may offend, or I am simply being polite because I don't know the person (both situations for this forum) I am very careful with my language. I know that people dislike to hear such things, because I do myself, and because I have had so many discussions about it here on this forum. What the moderators are trying to do is make sure that people are not upset by such things occuring on the forum, just as I think most of us would do in an ordinary social situation - it's polite.
We aren't trying to discriminate I assure you! That is the last thing we want to happen. None of us would want to see obscene language on here would we? For some people, seeing the Lord's name taken in vain is exactly the same thing - and it's horrible.
It may seem a little unfair that posts could be edited of such phrases, but isn't it just as unfair on the people who believe if we do not edit?


Just my ha'penny worth :) I'd like to see this carried out as a calm, reasonable and friendly discussion - we're here to listen to everyone's point of view :)
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Postby Fjalladís » Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:27 pm

Phu, quite a difficult topic. And it wasn't easy for me to make a choice. As you may know, I am a Christian myelf and it hurts me when the name of God is used in vain or as Hester described when jokes are made about faith. We had a big discussion, you may remeber, with that Mohammed-caricatures. Shall this be allowed or not? Is this a question of respect or of freedom of speech. First of all: It IS a question of respect and I don't like people using the Lord's name in vain. And when I to take heart to say something against it, I do so. As you know it was me discussing the use of words (of the word hate) with Eli. I think it is a question of respect for other people's feelings to use words carefully. All words, not only the Lord's name.
Freedom of speech: well, I live in a country, where we have no freedom of speech. (Yes, there is no freedom of speech in Germany!) And I think with the history, we have behind us, it is the right way. (You are not allowed to say that Auschwitz was a lie or to say "HeilHitler!" or something like that) I think it is good, that you are not allowed to say so in Germany. THIS is not only a fact of respect (for the Jews in that case) but a fact of criminality. (to describe that would go much to far I think)
But nevertheless I voted for "NO!" Why did I so. It has very personal reasons. I nevertheless think people should respect our faith, but it should be a volontary thing. We could reprove the people that use the Lord's name in vain for not doing so again or edit their posts, but we ( resp. the mods) should not begin to edit the posts of other people. The term moderator comes from moderate, not from judge.
I grew up in a dictatorship and I had to experience how it is to speak the wrong words, to be in the wrong community. Don't get me wrong, I am far away from blame the mods acting like dictators. But where is the boundary? When you forbit to use the name of the Lord in vain today, what will you forbit next time? What is allowed, what is forbitten, where is the boundary between both? I think it is like walking on a tighrope and my personal opinion is: Better allowe a bit more and ask the people for respect than forbit to much.
We only have words to express ourselves in the forum, don't start a censorship. I saw where this can end! I saw a country where people thinking they were the good ones supressed people they thought were evil.
I read a great proverb recently: Dear God, please make the evil persons good and the good ones a bit nicer. I really liked that proverb and for the end of my pleading ( ;) ) remember that mercy is a big part of what Jesus told us and remember his sentence (dont have an English Bible, but I think you will know, what I mean) God forgive them, they don't know, what they are doing.
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Postby Fjalladís » Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:31 pm

Grania wrote:we're here to listen to everyone's point of view :)


Grania was a bit faster than me in answering, but I think, this senctence she said is just great!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks G for this sentence! We should remember this from time to time.[/b]
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Postby Grania » Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:35 pm

Only speak the truth! That's the whole point of this poll after all.

I realise this is going to cause some tension for a few people - the mods don't want to upset anyone. In fact, it is because we don't want to upset anyone that we're discussing this with you all.
I personally would like to hear everyone that feels they need to say something - it will allow us to make the right decision for you all, which is what we want to do. Moya's forum has always been a place for friendship and good clean fun :wink: :lol: So let's keep it that way eh? :)
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Postby Littlefoot Took » Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:45 pm

Good points all! This shows that truely bright minds hang out here ;)

Anyway, there are two reasons that this particular issue bothers me:
1. Cursing in general. Its not really the shock value of the words that bothers me; having been in the Military I have heard it ALL. What bothers me is the underlying emotion/vibe that is the true thrust of much of cursing. THAT is the real "message" that is being conveyed. And yes I agree in advance that there some who utter such things purely for the shock value. But the hidden "message" leads me to the second reason this bothers me:
2. In using the Lords name, what is it that you are really doing? In cursing using a deities name in GENERAL what is it that you are conveying? Or cursing AT someone else? I know that this may be reading into this a bit, but thats the thing that I think about when I hear people cursing: where is it really coming from?
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Postby Phantas » Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:02 pm

Grania wrote:
Phantas wrote:Personally, "NO" I would not want this to happen. It sound very discriminating to those ppl who are NOT of this faith.
I can see the point, I'm all for taking things in consideration, but I mean, some of us only use it as an expression! I'm certain that the majority of members here isn't that close-minded to mind...I would find it strange if it was. I cannot see Moya object to such a thing personally :|

I really understand the point you are trying to make but I do not see it is fair.

Love,
Phantas


I'm a little concerned you can see this as discrimination Phantas.

I'll be honest with you, in my speach I sometimes do say the sorts of things were are addressing here, it's something I've picked up from the many people around me that do; I do try not to for my own reasons, and Faith, but sometimes I still fail.
However, when I am around people I know this may offend, or I am simply being polite because I don't know the person (both situations for this forum) I am very careful with my language. I know that people dislike to hear such things, because I do myself, and because I have had so many discussions about it here on this forum. What the moderators are trying to do is make sure that people are not upset by such things occuring on the forum, just as I think most of us would do in an ordinary social situation - it's polite.
We aren't trying to discriminate I assure you! That is the last thing we want to happen. None of us would want to see obscene language on here would we? For some people, seeing the Lord's name taken in vain is exactly the same thing - and it's horrible.
It may seem a little unfair that posts could be edited of such phrases, but isn't it just as unfair on the people who believe if we do not edit?


Just my ha'penny worth :) I'd like to see this carried out as a calm, reasonable and friendly discussion - we're here to listen to everyone's point of view :)



Politeness - yes!, by all means. But not on the basis of Faith. That is discriminating. If you wouldn't have mentioned it at all, I wouldn't be bothered, as I myself hardly ever swear on the board (perhaps only occasionally). Please do understand that I DO understand, but I feel that the way it is presented here and now is just not fair to others that are not of your religion. We're all human beings and as such I think most of us KNOW this is basically a heavily Christian influenced board - it's one of the things that are a bit iffy with me but we can get along sofar...I've steered away from topics discussing Christian Faith in a heavy kind of way.

I'm just afraid that perhaps over time ppl will misuse such a "power"(not the right word, I know) to edit ppl's posts when they feel it hurts them personally. (I'm not saying it will happen, but I see the possibility)
What I wanted to say was - use it only when ppl warn you of it, not as a basic rule. If members are upset they can contact you as mods or the admin, you'll be able to do something about it.
I feel if taken as a basic matter this is discrimination on basis of Faith, sorry ;) It's just the way I am. I'm also convinced this should not be a topic for a poll. It's nice that you do but on this board I feel it is too much a religious issue which should not be left to us members to decide on.

And exactly who can say what "using the Lord's name in vain" means? Besides cursing there are a LOT of other possibilities wherein a religious person could see this. I feel sorry for playing the Devil's Advocate here , as by all means I know what you try to do - it's the nature of the question which really bothers me. As I said I feel it will be better if members who get upset over someone ACTUALLY CURSING with the Lord's name in it to warn you of it happening, so you are able to take action on this person's warning.

Please also be aware that I do feel that everyone should take care with what they say (especially here :roll: ), but this should be something that comes from the inside and not from the outside.

I'm pretty sure that MANY will not agree with me... :roll: :roll: again

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Postby Lady Ryu » Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:38 pm

i think it is not necessary. very little people here use these kind of expressions. most people here are very careful what and how they write.
i personally think that you do overreact. it's just a way of talking, people do not mean it in a bad way or so.

i mean: i feel comfotable here like it is. grave swear words are never good and should be banned.
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Postby Angoid » Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:50 pm

The nice thing about a poll is that you can see a summary of what people think in one go :) and you get to cast a vote about it :) so I'm pretty cool with the idea of a poll about this.

In an ideal world, there would be no need to moderate such expressions because they would not be put in the first place! But we don't live in an ideal world :(

But this is why the topic is up for discussion. I've experienced it countless times (in real life and on forums) where I've suggested something that hasn't ultimately gone my way, but I just have to live with it :)
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